Our dogs are all veterans now (8-10 this year), all their lives they've ran sprint races mainly as a six dog team.

My query is this, we have been thinking about running at a NSDSC event for the last couple of years, unfortunately not there yet       

I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about changing their conditioning sessions.  At present we train 4 times a week on Thetford carpets.  The session length depending on temp can be upto 6 miles (not much for long distance rallies).  I feel this will have to change for NSDSC when we start conditioning the kids for the start of the next season.

We are limited to time in the Thetford area, we have to be out by 10.30am so to run the kids twice with a break in the middle will be impossible.  I do have another permit for another forest of which I shall check to see what the times are.

Are the kids too old to start changing their conditioning?  They still want to run but I feel this bolting around a circuit for 15-20 mins is not for the older generation, well my older generation of furries 

Help !

Hi,

I'm sure that there will be plenty of people giving good advice but here's my thoughts.

I don't think your dogs should have any problems changing over to run the longer trails (I hate using the term 'long distance' as it's not really, just slightly longer than offered elsewhere in the UK!)

My oldest is 11 and after enjoying the likes of the Leanachan events I chose to concentrate on this style of running dogs around 2005. Blue still does well whether running with my other 4 dogs or as part of the 9dog team pulling a passenger rig + driver + ballast(me!) I'll be running at these events.
Unless I travel up North to where longer trails are available I'm having to do loops of the same circuit to get the miles in... not very exciting but the dogs seem to have got used to it.
Do you have the option of repeating sections of the trail without going back to the van?
If your dogs have fit feet they should be ok, but most Scottish forest trails aren't renowned for their plush surfaces... boots (or carpet slippers) may be required...

To toughen the feet, spend more time on the access roads, than the parts of the trail more commonly run 

Thanks for the replies so far.

Yes we can make up loops without going near the van, although the kids know their way to the van but with a bit of gentle persuasion will carry on.  I shall have to do some serious mapping through the summer and start the training earlier this year to get the mileage on for them to be fit enough for the season.

I'm working on a light weight padded boot for the kids.  It has been years since we had any foot injuries but a couple of the kids have had bad experiences on hard surfaces so as soon as they feel it is hard under foot they slow up, which is good in some respects but not when the rest of the team want to carry on.

I'd love to come see the Fetteresso Forest Rally but unfortunately I'm making stock for Crufts and after paying £2300 for a small pitch you can imagine I'm trying to make as much stock as possible 

The bit I'm trying to figure out, is say for instance your conditioning the kids for the 18 miles with a break after 9 miles, obviously it depends on the kids (have I just answered my own question) but when do you set off again?  I know it depends on alot of answers, climate, conditioning etc., but is there an average to aim for?

I was thinking of 10 dogs two up, like you say Brian, Shafi the driver, passenger rig, very large ballast - me    Is this possible for NSDSC, I thought I read it was?

Just feel it would be nice to go out with the kids, checking out the scenery as a family, before they get to the point of hanging up their harnesses 

Yep If I remember correctly, it's a maximum of 10 dogs.
I know I limited it to that for the Ae event due to some 'interesting' corners
As for the interval, you've answered yourself!
I think it's all down to the dogs/conditions etc...
I know that within 5 mins of getting back after a 8.5 mile run at the weekend there the whole team were bouncing and wooing to go again... of the 5 veterans in the team the two oldest were making the most noise to go out again!!

I've left it 8 hours between runs, I've left it 4 hours, didn't see any huge difference in performance... bearing in mind we've never been the fastest team on the block...

Try experimenting with different intervals and see what works for you/your team.

Hi

I'll just add my 2p's worth

I think that maybe trying to change this mindset that many people seem to have,  that what NSDSC offer is in some way really complicated or difficult.
You've already said you train your dogs to run 6 miles, so if they can do that they will easily run another mile or two.

We've all heard tales of teams coming in from training runs (and even races) where they've taken a wrong turn and run an extra mile or two and everyone is fine. I believe we completely underestimate our dogs.
Say your bringing them back after a nice run, they're trotting along, you think looking a bit tired and suddenly a deer appears - those dogs will amazingly recover and set off as fast as they can go again.


Are you restricted to certain areas of Thetford?  The only time I was there, it seemed like a pretty big Forest.
I think you need to decide what it is you want to and then structure a training programme around that.
I was aiming to do the Fetteresso 18 miles in one run.
My training didn't start until late Sepember because of the weather, by the first week in December they were doing 9 mile runs and looking strong. (Pity I killed my van and we haven't been out since).

Is there a reason you want to split the 18 mile run?

What I have found is that once the dogs are fitter and running well, the distance seems to stop mattering to them as well as to me. We've done 30 mile runs where there were only a couple of minor stops during that run, to check on feet, throw a little meat snack (not really needed but it makes me feel good), swap dogs around in the team or just give them an ear rub.

Your dogs will notice a big difference in trail surface between the grass and most Scottish trails. I wouild certainly try to get them used to other surfaces. And hills !

Aviemore doesn't have a hill !
I doubt any Scottish or Welsh dogdriver would ever consider Aviemore's slope as a proper hill.

Look forward to seeing you and your dogs up here.

Hi Kisi,
We run at NSDSC events when we can and have ran the longer distances offered with only 2 dogs.
When we first did one of these events we did not quite know what to expect. I was prepared to stop at 3 mile intervals for a 10 or 15 second rest and to make one of these a water stop. At the time we were training around 6 miles or so, but it was a hard trail we used to train at.
I think, like with any sort of running, just add distance to the training route as your dogs cab take it. The way we try and do it (bare in mind that we are still only really runing two!!) is once we hit 3 or 4 miles in run 1, is give them little water and a short rest of around 5 minutes and then add another 1 to 1.5 miles. As I say, this is just what we do, it suits us and our dogs respond to it. From there we just increase the distance of run 1 to the maximum we can fit in the forest without re-tracing our steps too much. We'll run the route in different directions to keep the, from second guessing turns and verying what way up and down a hill they go. At the moment we seem to be draging our heels a bit and running about 5.5 then a further 1 or 1.5 with the pup and the recovering thyroid dogs in the team.
Looking ahead to the NSDSC event at Fetteresso I was planning on running the two dogs for 9 miles the first day and possibly the smaller trail with the the two boys once then with three including the recovering thyroid dog the next day. I am probably being too cautious myself as I think they would manage the 9 fine both days, but this way Mo gets to have a well deserved run as well. I'm just paranoid about feet and quicks. Although I have yet to try glueing small leather patches to their nails prior to running them this far.
Ultimately each event is what you want to take away from it. I mean, there are people that run their dogs at "sprint" races that are happy to just get round and there are people that are all out competative and want to be the fastest on that day. NSDSC events are no different. You will know your dogs and what they are capable of. Everyone will drive their dogs to their dogs capabilities (hopefully). I personally think there is a little more to think about with the slightly longer distances being made available at NSDSC events.
NSDSC is not the mystical entity that people think it is. Everybodies dogs are capable of running at them. It's just a question of building up the miles in a methodical manner. I mean, Peter's dogs were up to 9 miles in December when we were still only running 4.5 / 6.
Cam